Welcome - say hello!

[iiipopes]

Well then, CC it is! As far as your flutters, that is common, even among experienced tuba players. Here's the deal: you played trumpet. So part of your embouchure is used to vibrating, while the rest of it is not. But when you play tuba, almost all the embouchure has to vibrate together. Your lip muscles just aren't used to doing that yet. Long, slow tones gradually working a half step at a time up the staff, keeping the "corners" of the embouchure firm so you don't "smile" or use too much pressure will help. At the point the notes start wobbling, take a break, "blubber" your lips slightly to get the blood moving through them again, and start all over a few notes lower than the note that started cracking or wobbling and work back up to it with long, slow, low volume tones with a constant and steady breath support. Focus on getting the entire embouchure "set" with the mouthpiece 50/50 upper/lower lip. If it feels like there is too much pressure on one lip or the other, or if one lip seems to tire more easily than another, find a brass instructor to see if you need to adjust your embouchure slightly, or depending on how your jaw sets, you may need to angle the receiver up or down slightly. That's what I did with my overbite, angling the receiver up @10 degrees so there is an equal "set" of the mouthpiece on both lips.

When I first started marching with a souzy as a HS freshman, I could get one note: bottom of the staff F, in spite of having sat first section on trumpet throughout up to that point. Everything else cracked and blurred, because my embouchure was not used to vibrating as a whole, instead of just the center part on trumpet. But with time and practice everything sorted out. It will for you also.

Hang in there, you're doing great!

[snerfj]

Thanks for the tips, I will definitely try that. As for the CC - well, they're not cheap!! I've been following ebay for some time, but it's hard to know without trying them out. I may have a take a trip to Dillon in NJ to gather some experience and knowledge about the different types of horns.

Jim

[rodgeman]

Hello. I have played brass instruments for almost 30 years. I mainly played trombone and then about 5 years ago bass trombone. Well this last year I got to playing and a Conn 20J tuba was lent to me. I tried it and really enjoy it. I am awaiting my own Conn 20J w/ a recording bell that I just won on Ebay. These horns have character. I look forward to the journey of becoming a tuba player. Anyone in Phoenix w/ playing suggestions is welcome to say hi. Actually anyone is welcome to give advice, suggestions, or even random thoughts.

Thanks for this site and forum!!

I do have a question. I am playing a 24W mouthpiece. I can hit g below the low Bb under the staff. I was thinking of a bigger mouthpiece. As I said I play an older Conn 20J in a small wind ensemble. Any suggestions?

[iiipopes]

Hey rodgeman -- welcome to the trenches! Yes, a Conn 2XJ, of whatever variant, is a most impressive beast. Make sure you get a single sousaphone bit to go between the mouthpiece and the receiver/leadpipe, as this is how the horn is meant to be played so the tuning and ergonomics both line up: you not only can get the horn around to your hand better, but you can angle the bit slightly if necessary to better fit the mouthpiece to your embouchure if you have a slight under- or over-bite.

With the huge bore and conical structure, these horns need something that will help the projection, which is the whole reason for having the recording bell. I'd try something like a Bach 18 or a variant so that the bowl can help the horn develop the full range of overtones to knit the rest of the ensemble together. As you have related your experience, I also believe that a 24AW is not a good mouthpiece for a come-back or come-to adult BBb tuba player. It just simply doesn't allow the embouchure to interact properly with the larger horn, and the wide rim, although comfy, can impede flexibility and precision.

A "real" Bach 18 has a slightly larger throat than most of the copies and derivatives. Usually I don't recommend the actual Bach because of that, but since you come from a bass bone perspective, and know the required breath support and control, I think you will be able to adapt well to the medium deep bowl and medium large throat that a real Bach 18 has. As far as "bigger," it is a little bit bigger in diameter, but it is more balanced all the way around, and has a more contoured rim that you may also find a better fit coming from a bass bone.

After you've played the Bach 18 for a couple of years and really settled into your horn, then you can start experimenting with other mouthpieces to refine your personal tone and approach.

OK, now to the horn. A 20J is a 3-valve horn with a huge bugle, especially the bottom bow. Because of that, there are several aspects to synthesize to get the most out of the horn. Because this is an upright valve critter, you won't be able to "ride throttle" on valve slides, especially the 1st valve slide, like you can do on either a front piston valve or rotary valve instrument.

Many times, on this model, in order for the 5th partials midline D, Db and C to not be flat or so flat as they can be on other horns, bottom of the staff F can be out of tune open. If your horn is hard to center on that note, finger it 1+3. Pull 1 so it is a few cents flat on Ab and Eb, but not so flat but that you can still center the pitch and blow. But before you pull 3, pull 2 so it is a couple of cents flat, but again, not so flat that you can still set your embouchure and blow A nat and E nat in tune; and 1+2 is just a hair sharp and G & D can be lipped down into tune easily just by setting and blowing. Then pull 3 and decide if you want to split the difference between 2+3 being a hair flat and 1+3 being a hair sharp, and raise the back of the tongue to increase the velocity of air to get Gb and Db into tune, and only have a slight lip down to get 1+3 into tune, or if you want to set 3 so 2+3 in tune and lip down more for 1+3.

1+2+3 for low B nat and low E nat are just going to be the way they are. Approach these notes automatically lipping down going in, and don't overblow or "force" them. They will just have to come as they will.

If you get the compromises set well on each of the valve slides, then you get a great bonus: "false" or "privileged" pedal open Eb below the open BBb is very good open on these horns, so that you don't need a fist full of valves to play it with good intonation, tone and pitch. Then "false" or "privileged" D is 2nd, Db is 1st, C is 1+2, B nat may or may not play, and low true pedal Bb should ring well once you work into it.

Finally, start with the mouthpiece 50/50 upper/lower lip, utilize the deep, efficient breathing you developed as a bass bone player, and think "oh" and "round" on these low notes, with the back of the tongue down and relaxed, progressively thinking to "ah" on the highest notes. A good articulation to start with is not a "t" or a "d," but the hybrid where just behind the tip of the tongue articulates against where the teeth meet the palate, for the Oriental consonant like you are pronouncing "Tao" or "Dao," depending on which transliteration convention you prefer.

Congrats again on your acquisition of a venerable beast. Let us know how it goes.

[rodgeman]

Thank you iiipopes for the tips. I will take it to heart and work with them. I have read many of your comments and am thankful for your advice. I look forward to contributing to the forum and to playing tuba.

I will go out and find a Bach 18. It sounds like a sensible choice.

Thanks again.

[cdennis]

Hi,
My name is Chris and I am a Tuba player from london. Recently graduated from Trinity College of Music i spend most of my time performing with the Tuba 4tet YouTuba.

[rocker_brent]

My name is Brent. I am a "tuba dad". My daughter is 14 and has been playing tuba for about 2 1/2 years. She started off on trombone in grade school, and when she moved to middle school, her band director asked for volunteers to play tuba, so she moved down the register to the tuba chair. She has been playing school instruments, and is currently playing an Olds 91. In the past school year, she has become much more serious about her instrument and we recently found an excellent instructor for her. Even a bit of formal instruction has made a world of difference! I signed into the Tuba News forum just to learn more about the tuba community and instruments. For myself, I prefer playing rock guitar and electric bass over wind or brass instruments. Thank you for creating this unique forum!

[iiipopes]

Hey, rocker_brent - welcome to the forum! I also have a son who is starting band on cornet as well and really enjoys it. We will see in years to come if he decides to stay with cornet or move on to low brass.

If your daughter is getting that serious, then she might like a membership in the ITEA - International Tuba Euphonium Association, at iteaonline.org . It is the standard "professional" association and is a fine organization with a good publication of articles about players, playing tips, conventions, etc.

See my signature: I also play electric guitar and bass, and have since 1974. But I also play horns as well, starting with trumpet in 5th grade and marching with a sousaphone starting as a freshman in high school.

Here's the fun part for you and your daughter: The traditional range of a 4-string electric bass and a 3-valve BBb tuba are the same, down to the low E natural (open E string & 1+2+3 valves), and the range of a 5-string electric bass is almost exactly the same as a 4-valve BBb tuba, (open B string and "pedal" Bb, respectively). Tuba music is written at "concert pitch," and electric bass music is written up an octave from where it sounds so you don't have to always be counting ledger lines. Since I play both, I encourage you to ask her director if there are any electric bass parts in the concert pieces she plays at school, get a copy of them, and play along with her on your electric bass. Then switch. Teach her to play electric bass off the charts and have her teach you how to blow a tuba. The reason I say that is a person who can double on both instruments will have a lot greater opporunity for gigs, as I have had. In high school, I marched with a sousaphone and played electric bass in jazz band, so I always got in free to all of the football and basketball games! You might even join her playing tuba in a community band!

Welcome to the forum!

[BART]

Hi all i,m Gordon from australia been playing on/off since i was 15 was posted to tuba section in my early 20,s never looked back since i have just comeback to play again after a layoff and i,m enjoying very much i have just purchased a new tuba from MM tuba in florida i will have it in 4 weeks..currently in a band which will be competing in the australian national championships in hobart 4 weeks we are a B Grade band.

[termite]

Hi Gordon

Where in Australia are you? - I'm in Melbourne.

Which B grade band - we may be mortal enemies!

Regards

Gerard