how to tune every note of a Besson Sovereign tuba ?

[polmila]

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hi,

how can I tune (every note of) a Besson Sovereign tuba ? I can adjust the different slides but in which order ? I feel that the upper E (Bb transposed score then no valve) and F (1st valve) interval is not in tune.

other question: I can not completely remove the slide behind (= not in the front of) the third valve (kind of long loop on the third valve). Another fixed slide seems to block it. Do you know how to remove it (to remove water) ?

thanks,

[termite]

Hi Polmila

I think we are talking brass band treble clef notation here.

Open E, Eb a semitone down from that on second valve, D below that on first and C# on first and second are all what are called fifth partials. These note tend to be flat. Some of these notes will be very flat on some instruments but not flat at all on other instruments. You might find some of these notes flat on your instrument and some not. As I said the general tendency is for them to be flat.

Be aware that you don't always play the same note at the same pitch. If you're playing in C major then you will want that E to be fairly low - you can probably play it on open and lip up a bit. If you're playing in A major then you will want it to be much sharper - you probably can't play it on open - you'd have to use either first and second or third which are sixth partials and usually sharper.

What is a sixth partial?

Remember that open E is a fifth partial. The next note up on the same fingering (open G just above the stave) is the sixth partial.

Going down chromatically from there - G on open, F# on second, F on first, E on first and second (or third), Eb on second and third, D on fourth (or first and third) and C# on second and fourth (or one two and three) are all sixth partials and are usually a little bit sharp.

To play a major arpeggio in tune you need to play the third a bit flat and the fifth a tiny bit sharp.
In C major this means C - root note, E the third (needs to be flat) and G the fifth (needs to be a tiny bit sharp).

The series of note you can play on any one fingering form a major arpeggio.
Open gives you a C major arpeggio, second gives a B major arpeggio, first gives Bb, first and second gives A and so on.

When you play an arpeggio on one fingering like a bugle you find that the flat and sharp notes on the instrument tend to line up with the sharp and flat notes of the major arpeggio.

This means if you're playing in C major you can pretty much stick to open. If you playing in B major you can play the main notes on second. Skipping down to A major you need to be thinking of using first and second which will keep the E (the fifth of the arpeggio ) nice and high - no using open E here.

You need to know where you are on the instrument and what key the music is in.
You cannot just blow a brass instrument and push the valves down. You need to listen to how every note fits in with the music and pitch every note into place. Some notes will need to be lipped up and some down. Some will need alternative fingerings.

There is no way to tune a brass instrument so that you can use the normal beginner fingering chart fingerings and let the instrument play the pitch like a piano. You need to hear every note in your head like a singer and pitch it like a singer.

Getting back to your original question - open E is quite flat on most instruments and first valve F a semitone above is a little sharp on most instruments. On most tubas I've played in recent times I've had to lip down a little on the F and use the third valve for the E.

As an aside, remember that the third valve alone does the same job as first and second but is slightly flatter.
First and third are the same as the fourth valve alone but first and third will be very sharp. The fourth valve was added to the instrument in the first place to replace the sharp first and third combination. The same applies to 1,2,3 versus 2,4.

I hope I didn't go on too much and that this makes some sense.

Sorry if I sound like a music teacher (I used to be one).

Regards

Gerard

[iiipopes]

What termite said. Unfortunately, for most brass instruments, from picc trumpet to contrabass tuba, 5th partials are flat. And because of the way the bows and bell are constructed, the 6th partials on a lot of Besson instruments are sharp. So that is why your 4th space E seems flat and your top line F seems sharp. It is. There is nothing "wrong" with your horn, per se. This is a characteristic that is common among almost all brass instruments.

For example, the 5th partial open note is so flat on my Miraphone that I have to use the alternate fingering of 1+2 as is the normal fingering for the same note one octave down.

[polmila]

many thanks for your detailed answers termite and iiipopes !
well understood ! I will try to make correction with the fingering and the lips following the "context" (key signature). I 'm a tuba player beginner. Normally euphonium and trombone player.
I think that for euphonium this "good intonation" is not so.. let say complicated than for the tuba. May be it's due to the volume of the horn...

It's really a pleasure to have so good teachers !!!

best regards.

rem: for the slide, I went to the repairshop. It seems that the slide has slighty moved (slight shock on the slide ?)