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Conversation with Tommy Johnson

Last Updated (Monday, 19 May 2008 07:36)
Written by Stephen Oberheu
Sunday, 15 October 2006 18:00

Articles - Interviews and Pannel Discussions

Dec. 16, 2004


When I first arrived in Los Angeles to audition at the University of Southern California for my Master’s degree in tuba, I was staying at a friend’s place watching television when I felt a gentle rocking sensation in my chair. After a moment spent realizing that it wasn’t my own motion, I recognized this sway as being an earthquake. It seems these are common in California. Sure enough, station KTLA in Los Angeles interrupted their broadcast and cut to the newsdesk where it was reported that there was a 4.2 magnitude earthquake which had just hit somewhere around Simi Valley.

Being new to the area, I was pretty excited at having experienced my first real earthquake. I sent a text message to my teacher, Roger Bobo, back in Switzerland to inform him of the “news” (to me, at least!). He wrote back in a matter of minutes to tell me, “That’s probably just Tommy Johnson practicing near the San Andreas faultline again!”

Tommy Johnson has had a monumental career. He is undisputedly the most-heard tuba player in the world, though few outside of the tuba community would ever know it. In a studio career that reaches back to the 1960’s, his huge, yet clear, sound has graced 1000’s of films, commercials, recordings and live performances. Able to nail first takes of music that would have lesser players in knots, there are few players who match his sight-reading ability. At nearly 70 years of age he’s still going, despite a bout with Bell’s palsy. He also has had a long teaching career both in the Los Angeles public schools and at universities in southern California. His former students own many prominent tuba chairs in different orchestras and other performing groups. With a very laid-back demeanor, Tommy is one of the most generous and positive people to be found anywhere.

The above photo was taken of Tommy and Bill Murray during a coaching session for a scene in the movie Charlie's Angels where Bill had to play a sousaphone.

I got a chance to sit down with Tommy and get some stories out of him. It went kind of like this:


Steve Oberheu: What was it like studying with Robert Marsteller?
Tommy Johnson: Well, I think he was a very musical teacher. He taught music above everything else. Even though when I was 14 (when I started with him) I probably didn’t realize that’s what he was teaching me at that time, but he did. He did a lot of singing. I think he was an inspiring teacher. You actually thought of him as being the greatest; you put him on a pedestal. He was that type of teacher…I think all of his students thought of him that way. He was a very special person. He was concerned not only with your ability to play, but he was also concerned with your family life, many other things (like that).

To give you an example of his nature…I was able to study with him because I won a PTA scholarship when I was a 9th grader, which was for $100. At the time, they assigned me to him and I was a little surprised when I went to take a lesson with him and he wasn’t a tuba player, because I didn’t know who he was. All I knew was, this is Robert Marsteller, principal trombone with the Los Angeles Philharmonic. So, $100 bought be 20 lessons…at $5 a lesson. So when the 20 lessons were up, my parents said, “We’re not sure we can keep paying this $5 a week.” Marsteller said, “No problem! You can come and cut my lawn every week, and I’ll teach you a lesson.” I did that for over a year. I guess I did start eventually paying him again, but I did cut his lawn for quite a while. I guess he could see I had talent and promise and he wanted to continue to teach me. Naturally, I wanted to keep taking lessons.

I would say he’s a very special person. Very well read…he could talk to you about any subject and express himself very well on that subject. Even sports! He wasn’t what you would call an avid sportsman, but he did read enough that he knew enough to discuss whatever was happening in sports.

SO: Did he follow you when you were being recruited by USC for basketball?
TJ: He knew that I was doing that. I don’t think he was that interested to come to any games, but he knew I was doing that. He was primarily the reason I went to USC, because I could continue to study with him.

SO: I think that’s another thing that people find surprising, that you were a star athlete and USC recruited you for a basketball scholarship. Is that right?
TJ: Not exactly. Actually I came to USC and I was sort of a walk-on, but then they found out that I could play. So then they talked about putting me on a basketball scholarship and it was in the works but unfortunately I hurt me knee so it never really did totally materialize. But I had a pretty good scholarship for music, so I didn’t really need the basketball. I just about had a free ride. It was a lot cheaper in those days…$8 a unit.

SO: Most people know you have a long history that goes way back with Roger Bobo. What was your very first encounter with Roger like?
TJ: I don’t remember. (laughter) I think I found out about him because he studied with Marsteller. We were never really in competition with one another because I was always 2 years older. I can remember playing duets together. We used to play the original Blume duets out of the trombone book and read them down an octave. We would do it at his house usually. I can remember his favorite drink at that time was grape juice mixed with ginger ale. And that’s what we used to drink. He was a teetotaler at that time, as both of us were. We were both brought up pretty similar in pretty religious backgrounds. But that was most of our contact was really just playing duets. I was never really interested in playing in orchestras…the parts were boring and it just really wasn’t any fun. I remember Roger, when he left to go to Eastman, he fixed it up for me to be in what was the youth orchestra in the area at that time. So I sort of took Roger’s place when he left. That was actually the first orchestra I ever played in. Like I said, I didn’t really like orchestra music. Even in college at USC, the orchestra was more of a chamber orchestra, didn’t really have a large string section. So I didn’t get much experience in an orchestra…not until later.

SO: How did you first get into the studio scene? What was your first experience like there?
TJ: I think my teacher was responsible for that. I was playing at USC in all the groups. Teaching at SC at the time was David Raksin, who was a famous film composer. He had been teaching at SC since I was a student there and was still an active film composer at the time. They had a score called “Al Capone,” a Rod Steiger film. It was an unusual score because it was for wind orchestra, no strings. So he was going to write challenging tuba parts. So he asked my teacher if he knew anyone that could handle these tuba parts. (My teacher) said, “Absolutely. You know Tommy…” (Raksin) says, “Yeah, I know how he plays…” So that was my introduction into the studios. It was really helped along by a personal recommendation, because at the time when I got the call from the most powerful contractor in town…I didn’t know who he was…it was almost impossible to get anyone new into a job like that unless the leader absolutely insisted on having that player there. I can remember when I came in I wasn’t treated with too much joy. Matter of fact, (it was more of) a scowl and a “Who are you?” It didn’t actually faze me at the time. When you’re young like that, you really just think you can do anything. I just went in there and it didn’t seem all that difficult to me. Everybody thought I played so great but I just thought it was fun because all the players were so good. That was my introduction to the studios. However, I had worked before that. I played several times with the LA Philharmonic, again through Marsteller’s recommendation…second tuba. So I had done some pro gigs, plus I was playing with the Pasadena Symphony and I had actually done a couple of record dates before that. But my first real introduction into the studio was that call…”Al Capone” featuring Rod Steiger, black and white. Very interesting musical score if you ever get to hear that. At the time, Dave Raksin was writing in a 12-tone style. He was the one that gained a lot of popularity by writing “Laura.” He could write very tuneful, but he was into a little different way of writing. This was a different kind of a score. I guess the tuba players at that time in the studios were mostly bass players who doubled on tuba. He (Raksin) knew that, so he was interested in getting someone who could play, and I think that’s why he asked Marsteller.

SO: You have arguably one of the best jobs in the world as far as tuba goes. Do you agree?
TJ: Oh, I’d say so. The reason I would say that, it’s such a varied-type job. Most symphony jobs, you’re going to see the same people every day, you’re going to play the same music over and over, it’s much more of a routine-type situation. In a studio situation, you never really know what you’re going to be getting into day-to-day. You have a good idea it’s going to be similar, but there are times when it really catches you off guard. I would say just from a varied standpoint of playing all different kinds of music, working with a lot of different kinds of players and composers…I can’t think of a job I’d rather be doing than what I’m doing. I can’t think of one symphony job that I would prefer to have over this.

SO: And the financial situation is not bad either, is it?
TJ: Financially (studio work) would pay much more in general.

SO: If you don’t mind answering…how much do you get in residuals per year?
TJ: Well, I can’t give you an exact figure. But I will tell you this…what I get in residuals is much more than what most people make in a year.

SO: And that’s going back to the 1960’s?
TJ: From when I started. You know…it’s a lot of money. I make more in residuals than I do actually from working.

SO: What have been some of your most famous/infamous jobs you’ve done?
TJ: I guess the one that sticks out the most in my mind is Jaws. First of all, that day I was late to the studio because—as you know, I taught public school for many years and mixed that in with studio work—this was one of those days it was raining and I was waiting for a substitute teacher to arrive. Because of the rain, the substitute teacher was late so I had to wait longer than I wanted to. By the time I got to the 405 (Freeway) and headed towards Fox (studios), there was a big traffic jam so I was 30 minutes late to the call. I walked in, John Williams was on the podium, came in through the side door when I should have come in through the back door, I had to squirm my way through through the cello section to get back to the tuba (spot). The whole time he’s watching me with anticipation. Basically they’re just sort of waiting for me to get my tuba out. I very hurriedly got it out, I was really out of breath. When you’re late like that, you’re just really all upset. So as I sat down and barely got the mouthpiece in the tuba I happened to open the book and the first cue is this big long tuba solo. And I can see him with his baton looking back like, “Are you ready?” And I haven’t even blown a note. I said, “Ok.” (laughter) He started in with the (bum-bum-bum-bum) and this tuba solo, (sings)…well, I played it really fine. In those days I had a lip that just responded immediately, I never had to warm up. I never believed in warming up anyway, so I didn’t. Being the age I was at that time, I was in really great shape.

Besides that, I was thinking about what was happening at the junior high school while I’m playing all this stuff. I had to leave before the substitute got there, had to call in another teacher who was not a music teacher just to hold down the fort because I said, “ I must leave now. I can’t wait any longer.” I was preoccupied with a little worry so my thought was not totally on the music…maybe that was good because I just nailed it every time. Didn’t have any trouble playing it. But later on I was thinking, “Hmmm…that could have been pretty hard.” Because I was only playing CC tuba (Mirafone 185) at the time and this solo kept recurring in almost every cue. I found out later that was the theme for the shark. I asked John Williams later why he wrote that so high for the tuba, why didn’t he write that for the french horns since it was in the perfect range for them? He said, “Well, I wanted something that was in that register but I wanted it to sound a little more threatening.”

SO: A lot of people listen to (the main theme from Jaws) and they think it’s a french horn. Then you tell them it’s a tuba and they give you that look like “What?! No it’s not!”
TJ: A few times later on, the french horns did join in on that theme, but mostly it was a solo part for tuba. He did that again in Jaws 2…but this time I was ready for him. By then I had gotten an F tuba and did Jaws 2 on that. In those days, they didn’t take the soundtrack to make an album, you had to re-record all the music again. When we re-recorded the music for Jaws, I borrowed a Mirafone F tuba that I used on that recording. But not on the soundtrack itself. I think it took us 3 days for the recording session (for the film), but when I found out we were going to re-record for the soundtrack, I went to Mirafone and picked out an F.

SO: Who would you say are your biggest musical influences?
TJ: Robert Marsteller was the number one influence. But I’d say that Vince DeRosa was another big influence on my playing because I heard him play so much, we did so many calls together. Also, some of the great trombone players I work with in the studios like Lloyd Ulyate and George Roberts the great bass trombone player. Dick Nash with his wonderful, lyrical way of playing. When you’re playing with great players every day, you can’t help but be influenced by them. It helps you develop your own personality. I would say Marsteller first because he gave me the right direction and gave me the idea of music first and everything else after that.

SO: Describe one of the most profound musical moments you’ve ever experienced, either performing or just listening.
TJ: The first time I played with Giulini in the LA Philharmonic, that was a pretty uplifting situation. It actually happened at the first rehearsal. For this one concert, Roger (Bobo) was sick, we were doing Pictures at an Exhibition. I’d never worked under Giulini before. I came to the rehearsal with a lot of anticipation, knowing I was playing the Bydlo solo. I can remember as I was sitting there the orchestra, I could tell from the attitude of the players, that this was a different situation entirely. Nobody was talking, everybody was up on the edge of their chairs. He stepped on the podium and started conducting…I couldn’t believe the way the orchestra sounded! It just sounded incredible!! The string sound (like that) I had never heard before. So it was very uplifting. I remember at the end of the Promenade, he made just a few comments and then he looked back at me and said, “Mr. Tuba, just a little bit softer.” But I knew exactly what he meant. He set the stage and I knew how I could play from then on. Then when we got to the Bydlo solo, he looked back at me and he smiled and said, “Sing.” He just said one word, and it was like a light went on because I knew exactly what he wanted. So I played the solo, basically the way I thought it should go, never stopped. When it was over, he looked back and just smiled and nodded and I knew right then that he liked what I did. But the rest of the rehearsal felt like a concert, it was just inspiring. It was such a thrill to play under him. And just to hear the orchestra play like that, I just felt like I was in another place or something. I just felt like I could do anything. I didn’t feel the least bit nervous, though I did feel really keyed up. That went down as one of my all-time experiences.

Another one that came close to that feeling was when I played the Broughton concerto at this final concert at the 3rd annual tuba symposium at USC. It was the first time I had played it on F tuba. I had only done it on CC up to that point, but the day before the performance I decided, “I think I’ll do it on F.” So I practiced all day learning it on F tuba. That night when we performed it, I just felt really inspired. It’s just a great feeling, you just feel you can do anything, and you’re just having so much fun doing it.

SO: On a more serious note, I was wondering if you could talk about your experience with Bell’s Palsy. When did you first notice that something wasn’t quite right and how did you fight through it to come back?
TJ: First of all, I came down with the disease last part of July in 1980. I knew nothing was wrong at 12 noon that day because I had a great big hamburger for lunch. If I had Bell’s Palsy, I would’ve had a hard time eating that. So everything was fine. I proceeded to lay on the couch, my head against kind of a sharp edge of the couch and watch a Dodgers/Padres game for 15 innings and never moved, just stayed there the whole time and watched the game.

After that, it was 5 in the afternoon, it was still light, nice day, so I said to my son Keith, “Let’s go play nine holes” (of golf). We teed off, everything was fine. We got to the fifth hole and some kids were running across the fairway. I could always whistle (very sharply), so I tried to do that. All of a sudden, it felt like everything just pulled way to the left side of my face and I couldn’t whistle. I got very concerned, so instinctively I made a circle with my finger and put it to my lips to try to play and I couldn’t believe it, my embouchre was forming way over to the side and not in the middle. Now I was getting really nervous, but didn’t want to make my son feel bad and we only had 4 more holes to play.

When we came back home, first thing I did was come in and grab a mouthpiece…same thing, I could not get the embouchre to form. So now I knew something was wrong. There was no pain involved. I asked my son if my face looked a little strange to him. He said, “Not really. One side, the eye is drooping a little bit and it looks not quite the same as before, but it’s ok.” I was worried I had a minor stroke, I didn’t even know what Bell’s Palsy was. I got up early the next morning, hoping it would go away, but it was still there. I called up Jim Self and alerted him to go in for me, then I went to the doctor.

So the doctor says, “Oh, you’ve got Bell’s Palsy, it’s no big deal. You should be ok in a month or so.”

I said, “What? What?!!?” I couldn’t believe it. I said, “You can’t be serious!?”

“Oh yeah,” he says, “actually it can go on for longer than that.”

I said, “Is there anything you can do for this?”

He says, “Well, I can probably give you a shot of prednisone.”

He was getting ready to do that, then he says, “Oh, I see you’re diabetic. That’s really bad for your blood sugar level, I’d better not give you that.”

If I knew what I know now I’d have insisted on that shot. It’s an anti-inflammatory that makes all the swelling stop. I think that would have probably made it a lot easier for me because I would have still been catching it in the 24 hour time span. Supposedly, if you catch it in 24 hours and take that shot, you have a very good chance of having just a mild case. I just believed him, of course. By that time, everything was paralyzed on the right side and I was having a hard time eating anything, I couldn’t blink my eye. I just went through some shock therapy things which just makes your muscles twitch. Unfortunately it got worse and worse. I did ask him if it would be OK to try and figure out a way to play, he thought it would be a good idea. So when I got home I found that if I pulled my mouth back and held it real tight with my hand that I could play, and not bad. I could do most things.

Basically, I went to work on Tuesday and didn’t miss work the rest of the week. He said it would get better by itself. One thing that was bothering me was a sympathetic reaction to the nerve that controls your hearing which made sounds really loud. When the french horns played it just sounded so loud and I thought I wouldn’t be able to stand it. Fortunately that sensation went away in a few days, it didn’t last. But the Bell’s Palsy did last. It took seven months before I saw any movement at all. And you know who saw the first movement? Roger Bobo.

We were attending a Most Valuable Player Award dinner for the studios. They were retiring me, giving me the Emeritus award. Roger was getting the award for winning that year, so we were sitting together waiting around. Somebody cracked a joke or something and I laughed and Roger said “I saw your face move!!” I quickly excused myself and ran to the bathroom and made a smile and sure enough, there was a little twitch in that side of my face. I tell you, at that time, that was probably the happiest I ever was in my life, when I saw that little twitching because I knew that things were starting to come back.

From that day on, things started coming back little by little. It took almost a full year until I got back to basically what I have today, which is about 85% of what I had before. I still lose air out of this corner a little, I think I lost the ability to play as high as I used to play because of that, but after that I play with not as much reckless abandon as I used to. I learned a lot about playing actually, coming back from that. I think the fact I never stopped playing made it possible to continue my career. If I had stopped, who knows what would’ve happened. Even though it was awkward for me to reach around and hold my mouth that way, I could still play.

I remember about 3 weeks after that happened, they were doing the Rite of Spring at the Hollywood Bowl. Roger said, “I want you there.”

I said, “I shouldn’t. I don’t think I can hit those high F#’s.”

He said, “I don’t care whether you hit ‘em or not, I want you there. Just do the best you can.”

I came in and played that concert and I was really thankful to him to force me to do that because I really needed that kind of encouragement at that time. I think it came off OK. I don’t think I got the F#’s…but I tried. I think I got most of it. I’ll have to ask Roger about that sometime…”how did I do?”

SO: You have certainly had your share of students go on to amazing things…guys like Gene Pokorny, Al Baer, Norm Pearson. Who are some of the students that really leapt out and caught your attention when they first came to you?
TJ: One of them was Matt Garbutt, the tuba player in the San Diego Symphony. He was the youngest student I ever taught and also for the longest. He came to me as a seventh-grader. I taught him all through junior high, high school and college. He was super-talented. I just knew it from the first day I taught him. He was not a great practicer. Matter of fact, he hardly ever practiced. But he was so talented, that he could learn just about anything. Even to this day, I think if he really would’ve put his mind to it, he probably would be one of the great tuba players today. I mean, he is a great tuba player, but if he really applied himself he would have been the best. He was so talented he branched out into other areas. He became a really good conductor. He’s the assistant conductor of the San Diego Symphony. He also sang leads in all the musicals in high school…he just had a lot of ability. I’d say he definitely was the one that affected me the most when I first taught him as a youngster like that.

Naturally, Gene Pokorny was a great student. He had already studied with Jeff Reynolds for a year or so. He came into USC as a transfer student. He was already a great player when I taught him, but I did teach him how to shift his embouchre. That’s the one thing I think I helped him with the most. He developed that probably better than anybody else.

Wes Jacobs was another talented person who I taught at Long Beach State who was a real practicer. He was an 8-hour-a-day practicer. Matter of fact, I’d have to tell him not to do it so much.

Norm Pearson was another real talented student. He transferred from Cal-State LA and studied with Jim Self first, then he studied with me later at USC.

But you know, most of these guys didn’t really develop their real potential until they got away from me. It’s really true, because you have to be on your own, really. Most of them also studied with Roger, too. We had a good thing going back then….I would teach them when they were in college. When they would graduate, I would insist they go study with Roger for at least a year. He would give them an approach that was different than mine because our personalities are so different. I liked him to give them his focused way of approaching things. It paid off for them, it made them even better. But really, you just don’t reach your potential until you’re on your own because you have to make all the decisions. You say, “It’s up to me now, I have to decide what to do here.”

I remember when I studied with Marsteller, I kept wanting to stay and keep taking lessons even after I graduated. One summer I needed two units of credit to get into a higher-salaried position for teaching and asked Marsteller if I could take lessons. He says, “This is what I’ll do…you sign up for two units of lessons, you’ll get an A for lessons and you’ll get credit for the two units…but I don’t want to teach you..” There was silence for a bit. Then he says, “Because you have to be on your own now.” Those were his exact words. I thought about that a minute…”OK, fine.” I wanted the two units and I did want to take lessons, but when he told me that it actually gave me more confidence. I thought, “Hey, maybe he thinks I can really do it now.” I had studied with him eight years at that point, I figured that’s probably enough.

SO: There’s one story I heard from when you and Bobo used to poke fun at each other, and you got him with a wristwatch?
TJ: We were doing a concert in San Diego. On that concert was Rite of Spring. On the way down in a taxicab from the airport I kept hearing this ringing sound. It was starting to bother me because I thought maybe there was ringing in my ears. Before the concert, I asked someone, “Do you hear that ringing noise?” They’re like, “Yeah…what is that?” I thought, “Great…it’s not me!”

I had one of these watches with an alarm on it. I looked down at it and put it up to my ear, sure enough it was this watch. The alarm was stuck. This thing was ringing and I couldn’t turn it off. So I took the watch off, put it in my pocket and walked backstage. I passed Roger’s tuba, saw it sitting there, he wasn’t around. I don’t know what made me do this, but I took this watch and put it on his tuba. It was still ringing, but you couldn’t hear it because there was so much noise backstage.

So when the concert started, he goes onstage for the first number and I’m looking through the door and I can hear it…*oooooooooo*…and he’s looking around like, “What is this noise?!!?” I had clued the trombone players in to what I had done. So he’s turning to them, asking if they hear this and they’re like, “I don’t hear anything.” This last chair bass player sitting right next to him hears this noise and thinks something’s wrong, so he puts his bass down and goes offstage, while the piece is going on, and says to the contractor, “There’s this light that’s making a buzzing noise. You’ve got to get that fixed!!” The contractor’s like, “OK, calm down!! We’ll get it!” So the concert goes on, they play the whole piece, and you could hear this ringing noise whenever it got soft. I don’t think you could hear it in the front…maybe, but I’m not sure. When Roger came offstage, he looked like he was really going nuts! He puts his tuba down and goes away, I quickly run over and take the watch off, figuring I’ve caused enough trouble already.

I didn’t tell him about it until the concert was over. I said, “By the way, that ringing noise…it was this watch!” I pull it out, it’s still ringing. He told me then, “OK, you’ve got one coming!” I don’t think he ever got even with me. But, I’m sure he’ll remember that.